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Dominick have you watched supernatural again? xD jk <.<

According to St. Thomas Aquinas, the Thrones have the task of pondering the disposition of divine judgments. In other words, they carry out or fulfill the divine justice of the Lord. They create, channel and collect incoming and outgoing positive energies. Dispensation of justice is important to the Thrones and they send healing energies to victims while shining a light on injustice to bring it's presence to our attention. Like their counterparts in the second angelic triad, they come the closest of all Angels to spiritual perfection and emanate the light of God with mirror-like goodness. They, despite their greatness, are intensely humble, an attribute that allows them to dispense justice with perfect objectivity and without fear of pride or ambition. Because they are living symbols of God's justice and authority, they are called Thrones and have as one of their symbols the throne. Function and Philosophy This group of Angelic Princes are often also called "Ophanim, Wheels or Galgallin." It is said that they were the actual wheels of the Lord's Heavenly Chariot (Merkabah). "The four wheels had rims and they had spokes, and their rims were full of eyes round about." They are also frequently referred to as "many-eyed ones." God's spirit is conveyed in a certain manner to these angels, who in turn pass on the message to men and the inferior angels. Characteristics Having the most bizarre physical appearance of the celestial host, they are described a great wheels, covered with a great many eyes and glowing with light. One explanation given for this (besides them acting as God's chariot), is that they mark the end of the first Choir, where the emanations of God begin to take on more material forms and as such exist in a state of transition. Magically, call on the Thrones when you need assistance in smoothing relations with groups of people or between two individuals. For any issue involving a need for stability, or planets or planetary energies, call on the Thrones. To reach them, burn a white candle for Divinity and a green candle for the Thrones. Members of this Angelic Order Bodiel Jophiel Zaphkiel Oriphiel Raziel The Third Choir ANGELS OF THE COSMOS: Govern All The Cosmos: The third Choir Angelic Orders (the Dominions, Virtues and the Powers) concern themselves with the governing of a specific planet, as well as those angels assigned tasks below them. These angels flow in an intensity of power. They also carry out the orders they get from the Angels of the above Choirs. Third Choir angels deal with the cosmos and its interconnectedness. DOMINATIONS: Within the Seventh Order of Angels are those beings that distribute and maintain connections between all beings and things within physical realms. They are known as Dominations or Dominions. They are so called because "they rule over all the angelic orders charged with the execution of the commands of the Great Monarch." They are also known as the Lords, Kyriotetes or Hashmallim, whose purpose is to regulate the duties of the lower angels. They act as a form of middle management between the upper Choir and the lower. Receiving their orders from the seraphim and cherubim these bright spirits make known to us the commands of God and ensure the cosmos remains in order. Their main virtue is zeal for the maintenance of the King's authority. Only on very rare occasions do they reveal themselves to mortals, instead they quietly concern themselves with the details of existence. They integrate the material world with the spiritual, continuing balance and order between the two. They are described as carrying an orb or scepter as their emblem of authority. Function and Philosophy Also called the Dominions and the Lords, Dominations are one of the 12 accepted orders of Angelic Princes, ranked seventh overall. They belonged to the Third Choir with the Virtues and Powers. According to Dionysius, the Dominations have the duty in the Heavenly Host of regulating the activities of the angels. Through the efforts of these spirits, the very order of the cosmos is maintained. They handle the minute details of cosmic life and existence, designating tasks to the lower orders of angels. The Dominations are gifted with the ability to take part in the different corporeal aspects of the Symphony; seeing the world through an endless array of eyes. They are the most alien of all of the Orders, capable of experiencing life in ways other angels can only imagine, but they are also closest to the human experience in many ways. Quote from Dionysius the Areopagite text: "The name given to the holy Dominions signifies, I think, a certain unbounded elevation to that which is above, freedom from all that is of the earth, and from all inward inclination to the bondage of discord, a liberal superiority to harsh tyranny, an exemptness from degrading servility and from all that is low: for they are untouched by any inconsistency. They are true Lords, perpetually aspiring to true lordship, and to the Source of lordship, and they providentially fashion themselves and those below them, as far as possible, into the likeness of true lordship. They do not turn towards vain shadows, but wholly give themselves to that true Authority, forever one with the Godlike Source of lordship." In the traditions of Angelology, Dominations are the first Angels (and therefore the oldest Angels) created by God. Characteristics They are sometimes perceived as travelers, appearing in widely separated spaces and times. By custom Dominations are believed to wear green and gold, and their symbols are the sword and scepter. This denotes their lordship over all created things. In turn, the dominations receive their instructions from the Cherubim or Thrones. On a magical basis, anything concerning leadership falls under the area of the Dominations. To reach the Dominations burn a white candle for Divinity and a pink candle for the Dominions. Members of this Angelic Order: Hashmal Zadkiel Muriel Zacharael (Yahriel) VIRTUES: Those beings of light that act as generators within the physical realms belong to the Eighth Order of Angels. They manifest in this Universe as astronomically large beings, and generate various amounts of light. They are called Virtues and also known as the Malakim and the Tarshishim, they commune directly with stars and the nebulae which give stars birth, and with even larger astronomical phenomena. Said to work miracles on earth, the Virtues bestow grace and valor to those worthy. The Virtues' primary job is to move massive quantities of spiritual energy to the earth plane and the collective human consciousness. The Virtues are said to be very fond of those striving to achieve more than people say they can. They love all the go-getters and the positive people who try to enlighten and lead others toward harmony. Virtues work with movement, guiding the elemental energies that affect the planet. When you work with elemental energies, it is the Virtues who listen to you and assist you. When you are sick or scared call on the Virtues. Quote from Dionysius the Areopagite text: "The name of the holy Virtues signifies a certain powerful and unshakable virility welling forth into all their Godlike energies; not being weak and feeble for any reception of the divine Illuminations granted to it; mounting upwards in fullness of power to an assimilation with God; never falling away from the Divine Life through its own weakness, but ascending unwaveringly to the super essential Virtue which is the Source of virtue: fashioning itself, as far as it may, in virtue; perfectly turned towards the Source of virtue, and flowing forth providentially to those below it, abundantly filling them with virtue." Function and Philosophy The virtues are ranked eighth in the heavenly host out of the 12 Orders of Angels. There is a little mixed-up in the ranking of Virtues, some places them above Powers and some below, whichever, they are members of the third Choir with Dominations and Powers. As a member of this triad, they take part in the duties given to the Choir, namely the ordering of the universe. The virtues specifically preside over the elements of the world and the process of celestial life. Thus all heavenly bodies-from the stars and planets to the galaxies themselves-are kept in their divinely appointed routes and progress. On earth the angels maintain a watch over nature, marking and guiding every facet of natural life: rain, snow, wind, etc. It has also be speculated that Virtues are in charge of miracles. As if these duties were not enough, the angels also assist humanity by stowing grace and valor within the mortal heart. They encourage humans to turn always to the good and help enhance the person's will to endure hardship and suffering and to have the personal strength to turn ever toward God. As the angels in charge of miracles, they receive their orders from the Order above them, but they are also closely interlaced with the saints. To reach the Virtues burn a white candle for Divinity and an orange candle for the Virtues. Members of this Angelic Order: Chamuel Uriel Gabriel Michael Tarshish Peliel Barbiel Sabriel Haniel Hamaliel POWERS: The Ninth Order of Angels are those beings who maintain the laws set into motion we call the physical realms. They are keepers and teachers of the laws and are known as Powers. These are information gatherers and depositors of truth and information to all things that exist. According to tradition, the Powers are Guardians of order (peace & order), a form of Celestial Police Force, who attempt to assure order in the World (according to God's will). In scripture the Powers are said to stop the efforts of "demons" to overthrow the world, or else they preside over demons, making them "evil", as claimed by St. Paul. They are however, the keepers of human history. They are known as the angels of birth and death and they organize the world's religions and send divine energy to keep the positive aspects of religion growing. Powers work through the human 6th sense, and are the angels of warning. The Powers are Virtues embodied. They were not created with the other Angelic Orders, but came into being during Lucifer's rebellion. The noblest and purest angels, led by Archangel Uriel, became a new kind of celestial, warrior angels so resolute that they could not Fall. Since then, they have been Heaven's first and last line of defense against the diabolical hordes. Quote from Dionysius the Areopagite text: "The name of the holy Powers, co-equal with the Divine Dominions and Virtues, signifies an orderly and unconfined order in the divine receptions, and the regulation of intellectual and super mundane power which never debases its authority by tyrannical force, but is irresistibly urged onward in due order to the Divine. It beneficently leads those below it, as far as possible, to the Supreme Power which is the Source of Power, which it manifests after the manner of Angels in the well ordered ranks of its own authoritative power." Function and Philosophy One of the 12 Angelic Orders, Powers are also known as Potentates, Authorities, Dynamics, and Forces. They are placed in the third Choir along with Dominations and Virtues, numbered ninth overall. Some believe that the Powers like the Thrones were supposedly the very first of the angels created by God. However, this disagrees with the theory that all angels came into existence at a single moment and with the believe that they came into being during the Angels war with the evil forces. Powers have the task of defeating the efforts of the demons in overthrowing the world. They are declared awesome defenders of the cosmos against all evil and the maintainers of all cosmic order and equilibrium. They are the guardians of the heavenly paths, policing the routes to and from heaven to the earth. This means they concern themselves with humanity as well. The great harmonizers, they assist each soul to overcome the temptations place before it to do evil and to lean instead toward the proper action (that being to Love and worship God.) During heavenly warfare they are a major line of defense. They are also tasked with guarding the celestial byways between the two realms and ensuring that souls which leave the mortal world reach heaven safely. Perhaps not surpassingly, given their proximity to the nether regions, there are more angels from the ranks of the powers listed as fallen than from any other member of the hierarchy. Characteristics Powers' colors are green and gold, and their symbol is a flaming sword. On a magical basis, the Powers are warrior angels, and you can call on them when you're in trouble. These angels will defend your home, property, children or any group of people who call on them for protection and defense. To reach the Powers, burn a white candle for Divinity and a yellow candle for the Powers. Members of this Angelic Order: Gabriel Raphael Camael Verchiel The Fourth Choir ANGELS OF THE WORLD: Govern All The World: The Fourth Choir Angels find themselves intricately involved in human affairs and are considered the Angels of the Earth and the friends of man. They constantly weave in and out of our lives, listening closely to human affairs. The Fourth Choir Angels include the Principalities, the Archangels, and those simply called the Angels." These three Angelic Orders are charged with relations with mankind, and thus the "least Divine" of all the Angelic Orders. From Divine Diplomats to Heavenly Socialites. The Fourth Choir Orders are the developers of politics and the arbiters of taste, bringing the discipline of abstract structures to the corporeal realm. PRINCIPALITIES : Those angels of the Tenth Order of Angels are governors and administrators of various systems within the physical realms. They have been known to become patrons of whole areas, countries or cities. They are known as Principalities. They work with and conjoin their energies with larger groups of various types or species. The Principalities are said to be the guardians of large groups, such as continents, countries, cities, and other human creations on a grand scale (such as U.N. - NATO). They work toward global reform. You can find them anywhere, such as boardrooms, conference-rooms, swimming pools, and wherever groups of people congregate for learning, or just for fun. Principalities watch over the mortal world and are executive in regard to the visible world of men. Religion and of politics are also guarded by them and, "as such, they are assumed to be given more freedom to act than the lesser angels below them and are responsible for carrying out divine acts concerning their area of jurisdiction. Finally, they are given to the task of managing the duties of the angels." St. Thomas says of them: "The execution of the angelic ministrations consists in announcing divine things. Now, in the execution of any action there are beginners and leaders; this-the leadership-belongs to the Principalities." Quote from Dionysius the Areopagite text: "The name of the Celestial Principalities signifies their Godlike princeliness and authoritativeness in an Order which is holy and most fitting to the princely Powers, and that they are wholly turned towards the Prince of Princes, and lead others in princely fashion, and that they are formed, as far as possible, in the likeness of the Source of Principality, and reveal Its superessential order by the good Order of the princely Powers." Function and Philosophy The Principalities are placed first in the Fourth Choir of Angels among Archangels and Angels. They are ranked tenth overall. Also called Princedoms and Princes, these angels are the first of the Choir most concerned with earth and are traditionally declared to have roles of caretakers over every nation, province, county, district, city, town, village, and house. According to tradition, the Principalities also protect religion under their care. They work with Guardian Angels who are also assigned to every spot and person. It is debated that the Guardian Angels function as the personal angelic protectors and the principalities are the administrative or technical writers. They are supposedly empowered with greater strength by God than the Guardian Angels and thus receive permission more frequently to have a direct involvement in the affairs of humanity. They use their incalculable strength of heaven to move the hearts and minds of those mortals with whom they have direct contact. Characteristics The symbols of principalities are the scepter, the cross, and the sword. Magically, you can call on the Principalities in times of discrimination, extinction of animals or people, inadequate leadership or another from a town to a company. Human rights and economic reform are top priorities for these angels. To reach the Principalities burn a white candle for Divinity and a red one for the Principalities. Members of this Angelic Order: Anael Haniel Cerviel Amael Nisroc Requel ARCHANGELS: Those angels who govern the affairs of the messengers of the various realms and dimensions are known as the Angels of the Eleventh Order. They are very large and radiant spiritual beings. They are called Archangels. Their presence signals great change. They sometimes take human form in order to cause occurrences or change the tide of events for humanity. The archangels are known to work on several different levels in the Orders... they often belong to one of the other Choirs or Orders, and yet they enjoy working with humans when they can. They create and funnel energies both ways up and down the divine channel. The confusion about the collective celestial rank of archangels and archangels arises from "the ancient Hebraic way of defining angels which was simple angel and archangel. It was not until later that the hierarchy was defined, and many of the angels previous named as simply archangels were given new posts." Function and Philosophy One of the accepted Orders of Angels, Archangels are ranked eleventh: above angels and below principalities. In the division of the Angelic Hierarchy into 4 Choirs of 3 Orders each, the Archangels belong to the fourth and lowest Choir. The Archangels are perhaps the most confusing of the Angelic Orders, for aside from being a distinct part of the heavenly host, their name is used frequently for virtually every angelic being superior to the ordinary angels. Quote from Dionysius the Areopagite text: "The Order of the holy Archangels is placed in the same threefold Choir as the Celestial Principalities; for, as has been said, there is one Hierarchy which includes these and the Angels. But since each Hierarchy has first, middle and last ranks, the holy Order of Archangels, through its middle position, participates in the two extremes, being joined with the most holy Principalities and with the holy Angels." Archangels are among the few angelic beings mentioned specifically by name in the Old Testament. Even more specific are references in the New Testament, such as the Letter of Jude (1:9): "But when the Archangel Michael, contending with the devil, disputed about the body of Moses, he did not presume to pronounce a reviling judgment upon him, but said, 'The Lord rebuke you.'" As is clear from their appearances in Scripture, the primary duty of the Archangels is to carry out the will of God as it relates directly to humanity. They bring to the world the prayerful blessings of the Lord. It is for that reason that the Archangels - like their close counterparts the Angels - are said to intervene so regularly in the affairs of men and women. Archangels liaises between God & Man and are in charge of Heaven's armies in their Battle against Hell. Also they oversee Guardian Angels. Members of this Angelic Order: The number of Archangels has long been a source of great discussion among angelologists. Traditionally there are seven Archangels although who they are and what they do has been given variously in different sources. Islam recognizes only 4 Archangels, and other customs say twelve but there are much more than these. I have compiled the list of Dionysius the Areopagite, which is the best-known list. Gabriel Raphael Michael Metatron Uriel Chamuel Zadkiel Jophiel Barbiel Jehudiel Barachiel Jeremiel (depending on reference) Satan (before his fall) ANGELS: Those angels of the Twelfth Order of Angels are the messengers that commune with various life forms within the physical worlds. These include the Guardian Angels of humankind. They are called Angels. These are the most accessible angels to humans and other life forms. They are constantly present. Large groups of them may appear at tragic events as they accompany their charges to their next level or dimensional area. They also at times inspire through thoughts and ideas. Quote from Dionysius the Areopagite text: "For the Angels, as we have said, fill up and complete the lowest order of all the Choirs of the Celestial Intelligences since they are the last of the Celestial Beings possessing the angelic nature. And they, indeed, are more properly named Angels by us than are those of a higher rank because their order is more directly in contact With manifested and mundane things. The highest Choir, as we have said, being in the foremost place near the Hidden One, must be regarded as hierarchically ordering in a bidden manner the second Choir; and the Choir of Dominions, Virtues and Powers, leads the Principalities, Archangels and Angels more manifestly, indeed, than the first Choir, but in a more hidden manner than the Choir below it; and the revealing Choir of the Principalities, Archangels and Angels presides one through the other over the human hierarchies so that their elevation and turning to God and their communion and union with Him may be in order; and moreover, that the procession from God, beneficently granted to all the Hierarchies, and visiting them all in common, may be with the most holy order. Accordingly the Word of God has given our hierarchy into the care of Angels, for Archangel Michael is called Lord of the people of Judah, and other Archangels are assigned to other peoples. For the Most High established the boundaries of the nations according to the number of the Angels of God." Guardians are the Angels that are assigned to a particular human being. Our own Personal Guardian Angel! They join us at birth, and help s move over into the otherworld when we part the earthly plane. They defend us when we're in trouble, guide us in the right direction according to our life plan, give us small insights into how things are, and inspire us to live better lives. Our Guardian Angels are constantly in touch with any and all of the angels in the 12 Orders. They pass messages along to the relevant parties, and if we ask for help from our Guardian Angel, they assist us, and call on other angels too to help. Guardian Angels can come from any of the 12 Orders. Each angel has his/her (or its) function. None is better or more important than the others. Function and Philosophy The twelfth and final order of angels belongs to the fourth and final Choir, their primary focus of their existence being the caretaker-ship of humanity and the world. While the lowest ranked of all angelic beings (if one accepts the idea of a regulated angelic organization), angels are nevertheless members of the heavenly host and thus possess the profound and beautiful attributes given to them by their Creator. They are beings of pure spirituality and exist to fulfill the tasks given to them by God. Chief among these are to act as messengers of the Lord to the earth and guardians of the human soul. The Guardian Angel is the angelic being supposedly assigned not only to every living soul, but to places, churches, and even nations. They proclaimed the birth of Christ and spoke to Abraham, Moses, and a host of other prophets and patriarchies in the Old Testament. It is precisely the humans that the members of the twelfth Order are most often concerned with. They deliver new or word of impending destruction and woe. This is done through both physical and spiritual means. Angels also observe all of human history, perhaps recording every human act to provide a clear statement of the development of each soul. In heaven angels provide valuable service, in proper fulfillment of their natures as purely spiritual beings and the will of the the Creator. To reach your guardian angel, burn your favorite color candle. Add a white one beside it for Divinity. Members of this Angelic Order: Gabriel Raphael Chayyliel Phaleg Adnachiel (Advachief)

Ok that was like half of it, but that covers alot

The Whole END DAYS part of your book is pretty much copied off of Revelation with words changed out. And do you think Satan would allow others to rule with him? He is power-hungry. His sin was jealousy, not knowledge. He was the serpent in the grass, how could he create us if he is trying to fight for our souls? If he had, he would already have us.

"The Whole END DAYS part of your book is pretty much copied off of Revelation with words changed out. And do you think Satan would allow others to rule with him? He is power-hungry. His sin was jealousy, not knowledge. He was the serpent in the grass, how could he create us if he is trying to fight for our souls? If he had, he would already have us." first, well duh, thats what the revilations is about... Satan does let others rule with him.. not as his level, but with him. just because of him standing up to gods unfairness as voltair posted earlier (jealousy as you say), doesnt mean thats what hes bound to... no one said his sin was knowledge.. thats what he teaches. He is NOT fighting for our souls... he already has our souls! he just wants us to learn, and see past the lies of christians cramming in our heads.

I have to agree with Dominick on this because If satan is evil, why does he revolt against his sadistic father who killed over 2 million people. killings God: 2,476,633 Satan: 10 ^ In the bible that is

Voltaire has a good point

I never would have expected anyone to agree on me with this. Hmph.

I think that this convorsation is just causing more site conflict. Religion tends to get ugly in the end. The is no end to trying to find out which is which, you wont know till you die.

I'm no religious person, i believe in non of this lol. And yes we will as Science advances we might be able to revive dead people or people who recently died either of heart attack or other similar causes as long as we manage to restore electrical impulses in the brain and change vital organs it should work. Science of today is advancing fast and the evolution of humanity is rather scary, all the other homo species died out, we are the only ones left. Homo antecessor (extinct) Homo cepranensis (extinct) Homo erectus (extinct) Homo ergaster (extinct) Homo floresiensis (also known as the hobbit, coexisted with modern human till they died out..about 3ft tall as adult and brain the size of a chimp but still smart. They were found at Flores Island in Indonesia) Homo gautengensis (extinct) Homo georgicus (extinct) Homo habilis (extinct Homo heidelbergensis (extinct) Homo neanderthalensis (extinct) Homo rhodesiensis (extinct) Homo rudolfensis (extinct) Homo sapiens idaltu (extinct) Homo sapiens sapiens (modern humans) I wonder how the world would be if they survived, the modern human didn't stop in evolution, it just takes very long time and our specie has only existed for 200 000 years which is far less than the humans in the beginning. You can see how evolution works by studying the races within Homo Sapiens Sapiens. The Skull forms, their bones. I think evolution will make us shrink because of the amount of people, and the amount lies heavy upon the world resources. enough off topic chatter <.< The thing is we will know someday, it's just a matter of advancement.

Let's just agree to disagree. You have valid points when it comes to science that I agree with. Also, I don't agree with everything in the bible. Actually, I have a hard time agreeing with the entire Old Testament. Most of it has to be metaphorical, such as the beginning of time. Time wasn't even created, since it took a bit to make the sun and the moon and the entire universe. I think the 'days' are really millions and billions of years. Remember, the bible was given also to peasants who didn't understand much. They could understand 'day' rather than 'a really long long time.' Having this conversation is kinda stupid, because it won't stop me from believing in a higher power. Even if that force turns out not to be an omnicient entity, I still believe in energy and all that. I think it is good to study religion, yes. It is dangerous to go about practicing something you have no idea about, which is why I think everybody needs to study reigion at some point. But once you pick one, it should be apart of you and dictate your choices in life. It cannot be a hobby. That's like playing with fire. So I live my life fighting for equality and positivity. What does it matter if I'm not harming anybody? I'm not like those WBC guys, nor will I shove my religion down anybody's throat. If more believers where like me, I'm sure not a single person would have a problem with it.

I agree with some parts you say, i don't think it should dictate your life though and control every choice you make. The story of evolution and Charles Darwin was rather amusing really I love watching documentaries about such. Charles Darwin was in fact a genius. I streamed the videos about evolution on a site called Veehd.com you'll find them if you search "evolution" in the search bar there. I don't know stuff like that has always interested me, i never cared for reading though. The truth is actually that in Europe religion fades more and more, teens stop giving a shit about religion and only old people are left to believe and when they die so does their religion. It's only in the Middle-East, Africa, Americas and Australia that it manages to manifest still. Why is this? I don't know. Also I read a story about thousands of christians that said that atheists should die "all american" because of their lawsuit against the 9/11 cross... http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/media/death-threats-against-atheist-spokesman-after-fox-news-appearance This is the real dangers of religion, when the masses of believers become so big that hatred are spread like fire. Like FlamingBlackSkull here she is no harm because she is first of all open to science and new ideas, she is rational and she knows how to handle things. So yes i agree, more people should be like her and not like the people at WBC or Landover btw....the sun is just a star and the moon was a piece of earth <.< juss sayin. I can't believe that people think that human coexisted with dinosaurs and that they think the world is about 12 000 years old when the estimated time is about 4.6 billion years after using radimetrical dating on rocks. It's just how can people be so irrational and close minded that they shut out reality just because their parent's told them fairytales they believed themselves. If there was only one christian person in the world he would be declared mental. But since a mass amount of people that believes the same strengthens the belief and the idea it's hard to say. Richard Dawkins made a scale of atheism from 0-7. i'm 6.9 because saying that there is no possibility of a creator at all is not scientific. Also i'm very certain that there is not, but not completely certain. Idk, there is a group who wants christians and atheists to cooperate here: http://intentious.com/2011/08/07/an-atheist-christian-alliance/ also this one as i've posted before:

now I'm questioning Christianity...

It should be noted that I no longer reply to, or even read emails written by Christians. The simple reason for this is that after four years, I have gained the unmistakable impression that Christians are unable to produce anything which resembles a meaningful, objective and factual exegesis. Samples of the emails received from Christians can be read through pages Christian apologetics, and Discussions with theists. These show, only too clearly, that those Christians who write are ignorant of their own faith and scripture, although, ironically, they are only too ready to accuse their opponents of 'ignorance'. I seem to have spent much of my time correcting them of errors which presumably only exist through their refusal to undertake proper study of the subject and if they do undertake any study, this is confined to fundamentalist literature and their preacher's ravings. No less relevant is the fact that many are unable to engage in dialogue without personal and slanderous remarks which of course demonstrates their desperation and the lack of any basis to their myths-beliefs. In addition to the ignorance displayed of the subject, it is also evident that these Christians cannot be bothered to even read the content of the website which reveals either an extraordinary arrogance and/or ignorance. This becomes evident when, despite the fact that I have supplied more than sufficient information to corroborate a point made, this is ignored and the Christian will send an email raising issues which have been fully dealt with on the website. The Christians are not alike the WBC, very few are. WBC are led by a maniac and his incest family. Most Christians hate them.

i dont believe in god at all i think science is the answer to all but no matter what i think dont stop believeing in what you believe in

"WBC are led by a maniac and his incest family. Most Christians hate them." ahha if you think about this, the christains are contradicting themselves for they are the ones being incest. This can be seen in genisis i believe and maybe the noahs ark thing

Idk if you can count this as a religion, but this is the only I've found that I can put my faith in, the only thing I've found to be true. And judging by my past experiences, it's the only thing that makes sense. It makes everything fit together better than anything ever did for me, past "coincidences" are suddenly no longer coincidences, I understand the world and MYSELF better. I believe in something that's called the Celestine Prophecy. If you want to know more, click this link: <a href="http://www.celestinevision.com/"> and read around. It doesn't explain everything, but you'll get the idea

I think the main argument with physicists and theists/ theologians is the fact that they don't believe that the universe was made intelligently when in fact to study science we must assume nature is intelligable. I for one do not think God created, he LET it happen. One question that may never be answered even with all the knowledge in the world is WHY the laws of physics are. They just ARE, and that's where physicists have a big question mark above their head. What dictated the laws before time and EVERYTHING was created? Did they exist before existing was even possible? I think that energy must be some sort of force (Which some may call God) we may never be able to explain simply because we weren't there when the Big Bang happened. Sometimes I think we live in a multiverse (like, our universes are like bubbles in a bathtub. They can collide and merge or break apart) and we are simply one of many. Or maybe we where once a universe before, but that died and a new one was born. Mind blowing stuff that all has one question rooted to it. Why are we here, and who put us here in the first place? And I don't think we'll ever come to a (single) simple conclusion.

WARNING: Might be offensive to some people "I don't see anything"... >.> "What dictated the laws before time and EVERYTHING was created? Did they exist before existing was even possible?" Time is simply man made, for animals it's just day and night, or light and dark. We defined time on seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks, months, years etc. not the laws of physics. What dictated? Nothing, there can never be nothingness. "Energy can not be created nor destroyed only change form". If existing wasn't possible we wouldn't be here right now. But is infinite energy even possible in our universe? According to Albert Einstein, no. One thing that Albert showed, and science has confirmed time and time again since then, is that anything that exists in the universe is either mass and/or energy. So, when a theologian claims his Biblegod "is a spirit" he is ruling out that Biblegod contains mass- that which you can see and feel, and they will tell you such if you ask. So having ruled out mass, all that is left is energy. How much energy do they claim? Infinite energy. But that does not exist, for two obvious reasons. First, if there were infinite energy, there would be no mass, for the existence of any mass whatsoever would mean there could be even more energy were that mass converted into such, per E=MC2. The fact that mass exists- any mass- proves beyond a doubt that the amount of energy in the universe has not yet become infinite. Secondly, if infinite, "without boundaries or limitations" energy did exist, we would not, for the entire universe would be like the insides of a microwave oven on high, to use a poor analogy. The amount of energy anywhere and everywhere in the universe would be so high that life, and even mass itself, would cease to exist. The entire universe would be vaporized in less than a millisecond. The very fact that you and I do exist proves that the amount of energy in the universe is not infinite, but has limitations. "Sometimes I think we live in a multiverse (like, our universes are like bubbles in a bathtub. They can collide and merge or break apart) and we are simply one of many. Or maybe we where once a universe before, but that died and a new one was born." That same thought has been in my mind too, we'll probably never know for real. "Mind blowing stuff that all has one question rooted to it. Why are we here, and who put us here in the first place? And I don't think we'll ever come to a (single) simple conclusion." We are here out of Natural Selection "Evolution" and on this planet because it's warm enough for life to exist and evolve here, it's not too cold and not too warm, even thought the climate change now and then, we don't die as easily because the body adapts to the environment. If the environment change too quick for us to adapt we die out such as our ancestors or predecessors. "if man created Zeus, and the god of The Sun if man created Shiva, and the god of Abraham from all of life, why should the only one saved be the species worst behaved? it seems to me the species Homo sapiens, carries the chutzpah gene to think they are the purpose of the universe when they only just arrived on the scene whats even worse, they bear a curse of believing theyre the only form of life to never die, and go on living somewhere high up in the sky" -The Rational Anthem- Also Albert Einstein’s famous Special Theory of Relativity stated that Energy “E” is equal to Mass “M” times the Speed of Light “C” squared. Everything, 100% of all there is, is either energy, or mass. There is no other option. In fact, you may think of energy and mass as being two sides of the same coin. + Ricky Gervais "British comedian" also made an excellent statement that was very much alike the belief in a God. I could say that there is a "God" that looked like a flying octopus in my garage in the right corner all the way up there and preach about it to people. Some would ask, why can't i see it? Reply: It's invisible. Why can't i feel it? Reply: It's energy. But that doesn't make any sense. They cannot disprove that it is there and i cannot prove it is, but just because you can't disprove something doesn't mean it's there. Oh..and some answers to the E=MC part i posted. Response to it: Thing is this. Coming back to the previous point on the laws of this universe and energy and all that, christians also belive that God exists independently of physical existence and further that God created everything. This kind of makes him the author of physics and not bound to physical laws. Perhaps that's a get out clause. Maybye but it sure as hell sounds similar to some of the concepts of m-theory, like, other universes exist which do not share the same physics as ours. Mark here} This is the Christian's "out" anytime they get nailed in THIS, our ONLY known universe. Of course, they want it both ways, though. They want him "in the flesh" with Jesus, in OUR universe, or they want him on Mt. Sinai, or in the Garden of Eden. But when it's pointed out that such a being could NOT exist in the REAL universe, THEN they escape to their make-believe "transcendental universe" where ANYTHING is possible. The FACT that there IS no evidence for THAT universe, nor for a million other make-believe universes, doesn't slow them down. The minute your Biblegod so much as sticks his little toe in OUR universe, he becomes fair game for modern science, including Albert. And if and when Biblegod DID stick his toe into our universe, Biblegod being INFINITE, his little toe would also be infinite, and thus would fill ALL of OUR universe, and we'd just become toe jam to some cosmic freak. Therefore, it's never happened- and I can base that on modern physics. This is your choice: you either throw out ALL of modern science, OR you toss out your Biblegod: BOTH can not be right. Another Response: I understand your point of view. I think that you see the universe as the only entity in existence. Fair? Further, you are right that energy does not exist in infinite quantities in this universe. I still think you misunderstand E=mc^2. It is an equation that tells you how much energy is needed to form mass and how much energy you get from mass if you convert it to another form. It doesn't say all energy in the universe exists as mass. You also get radiation, themal energy, chemical energy, electrostatic potential etc. etc. Mark here} But seeing how the Christians postulate an INFINITE level of energy for their Biblegod, we should expect to see within our universe such an energy source- in fact, we would more than see it- we would be vaporized and destroyed in it. Be it infinite energy or mass, our existing disproves it either way. Yet another: Thing is though I think it's impossible to decribe God with physics. Christians try to from time to time but it's pointless. Hell, I'm sure you'd agree with me on this one - If God exists he don't need defending by a bunch of squabbling religious nuts. Mark here} Amen to that, BUT, IF he really existed, he would also not be playing "hide and seek" when the penalty for us Atheists not being able to find him is eternal torture. YET ANOTHER!: I read the E=MC2 disproves Biblegod and had a question for you. Assuming I believe Einstein's Theory of Relativity (which by the way has been disproved) Mark here} Oh, it's been DISPROVEN, has it? Maybe you'd like to tell that to the vaporized corpses of Nagasaki and Hiroshima! Maybe you'd like to tell that to the American servicemen who eye-witnessed atomic testing back in the 50's, and maybe you'd like to tell that to all the countries trying their hardest to develop nuclear bombs for themselves. Or maybe you'd like to look in the mirror and yell "Idiot!" a dozen times! Of course, the reason you don't believe it is because it has the word "theory" in it, eh??? The same reason you could never accept "evil lootion" too I bet! I also notice, once again, another example of a Christian making a sweeping statement without one shred of evidence to back it up. Once again, we have a religious blowhard who thinks he can speak things into existence, like his Biblegod. EVEN MORE...sorry <.< i just feel like it's needed: and I follow the logic of the E=MC2 and that Christians claim GOD is infinite Energy then, there must be infinite matter. WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT? Why can't there be infinite mass? We humans see as much as we can of the universe, but whats beyond what we can see? Don't tell me Nothing. Cause thats bullshit. What it just ends and there's just empty space? HOW DO YOU KNOW? Just cause our telescopes can't see past that, how do you know nothings there. Shit, we don't even know what lies in our own oceans here on Earth, and you're claiming that ITS impossible to have an infinite Universe? BASED ON WHAT? The fact is, our universe is infinite. WHY WOULD IT END? WHAT WOULD BE BOYOND? By definition of universe, it is infinite. And therefore mass IS infinite. Infinite mass DOES NOT mean that out entire universe has to be packed densely with matter. Thats stupid. IF you model the universe as a box, then you can fill the box with as much matter as you want. Mark here} Boy, this guy is such a GOOD bad example of how NOT to think! Let's see... an infinite box containing one particle of matter does NOT contain infinite mass, even though it is an infinite box. Now let's increase the number of particles to two- is that infinite mass? No. And where did I say the universe was infinite anyway? It's the xtians who claim their GOD is such in power. Scientists, I believe, believe in the Big Bang, and therefore don't believe that matter goes on forever, and have even measured the size of the universe. But anyway, infinite matter would not exist if there were even one square inch of nothingness in an infinite universe, for that could also be filled with matter, meaning that matter had not yet reached infinity. And as long as we've got Christians like Bozo here who clearly have 6" of emptiness between their ears, that should be proof enough that infinite matter doesn't exist. EVEN MORE...: As a result, Einstein showed inferential arguments to be just as scientifically valid as direct arguments. For example, gravity is a concept that has no mass, is not directly observable nor measurable. So you cannot directly prove its existence. HOWEVER, we note the effects of gravity (i.e. an apple falling from a tree, the earth-moon-sun attraction) and thus we INFER that gravity exists. Mark here} So.... you can't measure gravity? I must again have been mistaken all these years, for I had believed that gravity was VERY measurable. In fact, every time you step on a weight scale, I thought that was at least an indication of the force of gravity. And don't the astronomers give the gravitational forces of all the planets? But, how could they DO that, unless they could MEASURE the gravity??? Hmmmm... And you say you can't "directly prove" the existence of gravity? Hmmm... I just threw a coin up in the air, and, WOW!!! It came down!!! YET MORE AND MORE TO COME: From your ridiculous display of stupidity on your website, you totally goofed this up: You thought a God with infinite Power, must have infinite Energy and thus infinite Mass. YOU are a DUMBASS, and you should've stayed in school! Mark here} Well excuse me! But I always thought than in an equation, both sides being equal, if ONE side went to infinite, so would the OTHER. Silly me! What mathematics are YOU using- NEW math??? Let's see... We have a combination of energy AND mass existing in our Universe. Since per the Christians the energy side of the equation has already gone to infinite, BY DEFINITION so also the MASS SIDE goes to infinite (gotta stay equal, remember?). IF all we had was energy in the universe, we could have infinite energy WITHOUT infinite mass. But instead we have a Universe of both, and a percentage, even a small percentage, of an infinite is itself infinite. Therefore, if the Christians were right, we would currently be living in a Universe of BOTH infinite energy AND infinite mass. We don't, therefore the Christians are wrong. Mr. Nameless is just a sore and bitter loser. There is THOUSANDS more but I won't bother putting it in here....... Sorry for all the reading and maybe off topic stuff <.<

Mark here} Amen to that, BUT, IF he really existed, he would also not be playing "hide and seek" when the penalty for us Atheists not being able to find him is eternal torture. ...Faith is a gift that must be earned, even for God. If you just don't accept it, (not saying you should be blind to other explanatiions.) it isn't real faith. There is a difference between faith and KNOWING. Which is probably the idea. I'm sure there are many many faults in how I've worded it, but you get the idea. Like I said, nothing wrong with that. If I waste my whole life living postively, I don't think that's a life wasted. I'm happy with that. Another thing... Who said God has infinate energy in terms of phsyics? He can do all things but does he really need an infinate amount of energy? Is infinate meaning immeasurable? Obviously the laws of physics would dictate that a certain amount of energy is needed to do certain things. Combining all those cannot equal infinity, right? christians also belive that God exists independently of physical existence and further that God created everything. This kind of makes him the author of physics and not bound to physical laws I believe this, but appearantly it is a cop-out. :( But I also don't claim to know how that all exactly works. (the existing independently of physical existence part) Flaws. There are flaws in my argument, of course. But so does every argument ever made. It is based on perception. We don't even know for a fact that we are even actually HERE in the place we think. We could just be brains in a jar that fire the exact same signals as we are sitting here. Hell, I don't even know if any of you even really exist if that's the case. How do we know any of it is real? Maybe I am really the only person in the world that acutally believes in God and my mind is humouring me by creating other people to talk to me. Everything could be a hallucination, a lie. Family and friends could be a creation of my own mind. Woah, I just went to a scary place. O___O Talking about this kinda stuff makes me think wierd crap, and it freaks me out. ...I was going to say something else, but I forgot.